What is the Bamboo Ceiling?

A Goldman Sachs report revealed that U.S.-born Asian American men with graduate degrees are less likely to hold executive positions than white men. Asian American women in tech are likely to be hired but least likely to be promoted. This is due to cultural and societal barriers known as the bamboo ceiling. The podcast aims to explore how East Asian Americans navigate cultural values and leadership expectations in the U.S. It discusses the differences between Eastern and Western cultures and how they impact leadership. The stereotypes of Asians as forever foreigners and model minorities are also addressed, along with the lack of Asian representation in media. A 2022 Goldman Sachs report revealed that U.S.-born Asian American men with graduate degrees are 15% less likely to hold executive positions than white men with the same credentials. Asian American women in tech are actually the most likely to be hired, but the least likely to be promoted. These statistics show not a talent issue, but something deeper. Something that comes down to culture and society. Hey everyone, I'm Hannah Yoo, and this is Defying the Bamboo Ceiling, a podcast about how East Asian Americans can navigate the unique crossroads between cultural values and leadership expectations in a U.S. workplace. The term bamboo ceiling was coined by Jane Sun in her book, Breaking the Bamboo Ceiling, Career Strategies for Asians. It refers to the set of cultural, organizational, and individual barriers that prevent many Asian Americans from attaining leadership positions despite their high qualifications and performance. Before we get into the heart of this informative and introductory episode on this podcast, I'd love to introduce myself for those who don't know me personally and are listening. So I'm a senior at Boston Latin School, and through the course Senior Capstone, I've been enabled to explore and dive deeply into this topic of my choice. I'm a first generation Chinese American who's always been curious about business, leadership, and entrepreneurship, and I've been increasingly curious about my own cultural identity. So as I was brainstorming ideas for my capstone project, I realized what better way to explore this personal and fascinating intersection of these two interests than through a podcast, which is my favorite medium to listen to and learn from. Through my experiences in school, internships, and just observing the world around me, I'd often notice the lack of Asian representation in leadership roles. So naturally, I've become curious about how my cultural background shapes my experiences as an East Asian when it comes to leadership and business. I also found it intriguing that although Asian Americans are statistically the most educated and highest earning group in America, Asian Americans are almost invisible at the top, holding only about 2% of CEO positions at S&P 500 companies and just 1.5% of board seats at Fortune 500 firms. These questions led me to my eventual research question for this year, and that is, how do the facets of Eastern and Western culture impact East Asians' rise to leadership positions in the US? So in this episode, we're going to unpack three things. What the bamboo ceiling is and how it works, how the East and West fundamentally differ culturally, and how that might translate in the West. And lastly, we'll talk about media representation and stereotypes that complicate things even more. I also want to be very clear that not every East Asian aspires to be a CEO or a leader of that matter, and that is totally valid. And I'm not trying to imply that that must be the goal or that equates success because it doesn't always. But for those who do aspire to lead or are simply curious about the cultural forces at play, understanding these dynamics can be empowering. Another thing before I continue is a quick disclaimer. The term Asian American is an incredibly broad, diverse category representing over 80 different cultures and languages, but to avoid generalizations, this podcast specifically focuses on the experiences of East Asians, which include people of Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Taiwanese, and Mongolian descent. This is because it's my ethnic background, so I can speak more truthfully to it. And other ethnic groups such as South Asians might have different experiences, narratives, and outcomes. Yes, Asian American is a broad category, so people will experience some overlap. Slowing it down helps me not generalize as much and not view Asian Americans as a monolith. Adding on to my South Asian example, my comparison between the two in terms of outcomes actually is one of the reasons why I became interested in this topic specifically for East Asians because South Asians have emerged as highly visible success stories. There are the CEOs of Google and Microsoft, Sundar Pichai and Satya Nadella, and South Asian Americans today also have a higher median household income than East Asians by over 30K, and generally they are more prominent among elite leadership ranks. In that comparison, it made me even more curious. What is it about East Asians specifically that might cause this difference or gap under this broader term of Asian American? In Eastern societies shaped by Confucian ideals, humility, self-restraint, respect for authority, and collective success take precedence over individual ambition. This is totally different from Western norms where assertiveness and self-promotion are often key to leadership. My dad once shared this story about him when he was younger around my age, and it really opened my eyes to how humility was emphasized. So he was elected as president of his class, and he told me that the vote was unanimous except for one ballot, his very own. And I was like, oh, interesting. He was like, yeah, in China, you could never vote for yourself. That's improper. That's shameful. That's inappropriate. And I feel like that really shows how you must be humble in this society, and this little instance in his classroom plays out throughout society. And taking those same values with you into America might kind of inadvertently hold you back because America is such an individualistic society. In Chinese, there's a saying, a lot of duck gets shot. In some countries like Korea and Japan, there's a saying that the most mature rice stalk bends the lowest. So what does that mean? If a rice stalk is still young and not yet full, it stands upright. But when it's all grown up and full of rice grains, it bends its head low. And this metaphor is saying that as we mature, as we get better educated and become more well-off, we should be more humble about our achievements and possessions. So humility is very important. Meanwhile, in America, the squeaky wheel gets the oil. And American leadership culture tends to value assertiveness, self-promotion, and bold individualism. So now we can see how the East and West differ. And because of that, Eastern values of humility and deference can often be misinterpreted as passivity, which is frequently considered a weak trait. In a workshop that Jane Kim conducted called Managing a Diverse Workforce, participants were asked to list common stereotypes and behaviors they associated with their Asian coworkers. Some of their responses were quiet, don't speak up, submissive, well-educated, don't ask a lot of questions, and are loyal, and don't jaw pop. Automatically, after discussing the Eastern values, I hope you can see how they contribute to the way we perceive Asians in America and the stereotypes that might exist. A lot of it comes down to culture. Speaking of societal perceptions and stereotypes, let's talk about the two dominant stereotypes Asians are often boxed into, the forever foreigner and the model minority. The forever foreigner stereotype frames Asians as outsiders no matter how long they've lived here. This perception has roots from the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 to the internment of Japanese Americans during World War II. There are so many other historical instances, policies, and events that contributed to this stereotype to come to be, but more recently, during COVID-19, anti-Asian hate incidents surged. Over 11,500 incidents were reported, and mind you, these are the only ones that were reported and not the ones unreported, to stop AAPI hate between 2020 and 2022. Then there is the model minority-ness. It paints Asians as hardworking, obedient, and mathematically and scientifically gifted. It pushes the idea that if you work hard, you will succeed. While objectively this may seem like a positive portrayal of Asians, there are so many reasons why it's not. And in the context of leadership, it paints Asians as not natural leaders. Not only that, it sets unrealistic expectations, which contributes to high rates of stress and untreated mental health issues. And by describing Asian Americans as a quote-unquote model minority, it situates other minorities as possibly problem minorities, and that becomes dangerous. If you're interested more in this topic, I recommend you dive more deeply into it because there's so much we can get into with this stereotype. Okay, speaking of narratives being pushed out, let's talk about media representation. Oh my gosh, where do I even start? Aside from daily interactions, a lot of our impressions about Asians actually come from what we see in the media and entertainment. Let me ask you this. How often do you see an Asian politician, CEO, or authoritative figure in mainstream entertainment? Instead, Asians are so often cast as geeky nerds, martial artists, think Jackie Chan or Bruce Lee, or mysterious foreigners like Mr. Ginyoshi in Breakfast at Tiffany's. These portrayals don't just shape how society sees Asians, but they also shape how Asians see themselves, including me. I also use these examples of famous Asian actors because in my Asian Studies course with Mr. Zhao this year, we were able to do a big dive into media representation and dissect different films to talk about different character tropes that Asians are often placed in, and I'm so grateful for the course because we get to have a lot of deep conversations about this. But in the context of leadership, it creates internal and external barriers because it kind of tells us what we should expect from Asians and also what Asians should expect of themselves. I do want to note that the media landscape is definitely getting better. We've seen Simu Liu in Shang-Chi, Crazy Rich Asians, and other empowering productions. But growing up, I remember watching Bunk'd and seeing Tiffany, the Asian character, being this overachieving perfectionist obsessed with pleasing her mother, and I was like, come on. Over and over again, we see the same stereotypes. The exotic foreigner, sexualized Asian woman too, and meek effeminate Asian men who never get to be the romantic lead. I remember Mr. Zhao shared that when he was our age, you would have never seen a film with an Asian guy as the love interest. But we are starting to see that change now, and it's been a long time coming. So how does all of this affect Asian Americans internally? Well, cultural values like humility and deference can make it harder for us to take or be offered leadership opportunities. And then you can combine that with negative media stereotypes and also parental expectations that prioritize stability over leadership. I think we've all heard that Asians are expected to be doctors, lawyers, scientists, but not really politicians, entrepreneurs, or CEOs. On my speech team, we're coincidentally all East Asian, and I started talking to them about my topic, and I asked where their parents worked. And all of them, at least one parent, worked in non-managerial STEM roles, like a researcher. Even among highly accomplished Asian American families, leadership isn't always the ultimate aspiration. Judging from my experience and the experiences of others, it made me realize how deeply this pattern runs. So, what now? In this podcast, we'll hear from East Asian leaders who've walked this path. We'll talk about their stories, their struggles, and their strategies of how they navigated the workforce as East Asians. This is meant to be used as a resource for East Asians like me, or anyone for that matter. Because regardless of what cultural background you're from, understanding these cultural dynamics makes us all more empathetic and knowledgeable people. And personally, I just think this is a very interesting topic to learn about. Over this series, I have learned that humility, discipline, and respect may be perceived as weaknesses. If one learns how to adapt them to American contexts, they can be very amazing leadership strengths. I have interviewed people from many different industries and journeys in life, so I hope you guys enjoy our conversation in the next few episodes. Feel free to tune in wherever you are, on a walk, on a commute to school, cleaning your room. That's how I like to listen to my podcasts. And also, if you don't know this already, please speed up some parts of the episodes if you feel it's necessary. Through this project, I've learned so much about audio editing, audio recording, interviewing, and let me just tell you, I've faced a lot of technical difficulties and I've had a lot of lessons I've learned. So, bear with me on some of the episodes where audio recordings might not have played out the best. All I know is, in fact, I've had a really great experience learning, growing, and helping myself. And I hope you've enjoyed this episode. Thank you so much for tuning in. Production of Defying the Bamboo Ceiling is made possible by the Senior Capstone Research Program at Boston University. Special thanks to our contributors, Mr. Chen, Ms. Paula Bowles, and Ms. Kathleen Beasley. Thank you to all who made this project possible and contributed to my efforts. This has been an incredibly transformative experience in my life. Thank you for listening to Defying the Bamboo Ceiling.