Captains Kim and Dakota

The Mid-America Veterans Museum is a nonprofit organization that relies on donations to share and preserve veteran stories. The podcast features discussions on historical events, military service, and personal experiences for educational purposes. The hosts, Jason and Sergeant Ethan, welcome special guests Captain Kim and Captain Dakota, founders of the Dog Tag Diaries and advocates for women veterans. The guests share their backgrounds, experiences, and even being on Fear Factor. Captain Kim's interest in nursing stemmed from witnessing a baseball injury, leading her to become a combat medic in the Army. The podcast highlights the guests' stories and advocacy for women in the military. The Mid-America Veterans Museum is a 501c3 nonprofit business. Your donations serve to further the museum's mission of sharing and preserving the stories of our veterans. To donate, visit mavm.org and click on Donate. The content covered in this podcast is for general informational, historical, and educational purposes only. Discussions about historical events, military service, personal experiences, or sensitive topics are presented for educational and archival purposes. The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed by the host and or guest do not necessarily reflect the official policy or endorsement of the Mid-America Veterans Museum. Neither the organization, host, director, nor the guest shall at any time be liable for the content covered, causing offense, distress, or any other reaction. ♪♪♪ Welcome to Operation Inside from the Mid-America Veterans Museum with your hosts, Jason Galvin and Sergeant Ethan Gross. Hi. Captain's Kim in Dakota. What's up? What an honor. Hi, Jason. Hi, Ethan. Hello. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for having us. All right, well, welcome back, family, to the Operation Inside podcast from the Mid-America Veterans Museum. We have two very special guests. Ethan, go ahead and kick us off. Thank you, Jason. Yes, Captain's Kim in Dakota. That is Captain Kim Lizka of Allentown, Pennsylvania, and Captain Dakota Olson-Harris of Baker City, Oregon. Thank you both for joining us. It's a huge honor to be able to speak to fellow podcasters. This will be a fun episode not only because you guys have such big personalities but also because I think I speak for both of us when I say it was a huge honor for us when Captain Kim in Dakota reached out to us saying that, hey, we found your podcast while searching other podcasts, searching other names. We happened upon Operation Insight. Part of the reason for that, I'll give you a little bit of a background behind all this, Jason and Jim Higgins was one of the original founders of the museum when it was known as the St. Charles County Veterans Museum prior to us changing to the Mid-America Veterans Museum. Their previous iteration of the podcast was called, as you guys know, I'll explain for the audience, was called the Dog Tag Podcast. And funny enough, when I got in touch with Jason and our executive director, Nina D'Angelo, and we start talking about essentially reviving the podcast, Nina set Jason and I out on a search to find a new title, find a new name since we are reiterating. And I can remember, funny enough, Googling, just kind of my own little market research project, Googling Dog Tag Podcast, and Dog Tag Diaries came up. Yay. And I remember thinking to myself, well, we have to change our name now. There's already a very successful podcast out there using Dog Tag. So anyway, we have a funny connection. It's so nice to be able to speak with you guys and have you on our podcast. So you guys are the founders of the Dog Tag Diaries, as I mentioned. You're also the founders of Reveille and Retreat Project. So I think I can summarize this fairly well when I say that you guys are some of the premier advocates for women veterans, women veteran issues, and trying to advocate and advance the cause of females in the military. Let's do this. So obviously, since you guys are hosts of your own podcast, the Dog Tag Diaries, you've had the opportunity to introduce yourselves to your own audience. Both Jason and I have listened and enjoyed those episodes, the first two episodes of your podcast. And you guys do a beautiful job of introducing yourself and talking about the types of experiences that you've had. So I don't want to reinvent the wheel. For time's sake, but also you've already told people about yourself, and I want people to go ahead and listen to the Dog Tag Diaries. Jason and I are huge proponents of whenever we can advance a cause that we believe in or promote people that we really like, like you guys, we want to be able to do that. So for our listening audience, there are episodes out there with Kim and Dakota, and they tell you all about themselves, and they get very vulnerable, and they're very sincere in recounting their stories. Another podcast you guys have been on just recently was the AUSA Army Matters Podcast, and you were interviewed by Lieutenant General Retired Leslie Smith. Jason and I have listened to that podcast as well. You guys do a great job of presenting yourselves. Once again, no surprise. So I'm going to kind of dance around some of the questions that you guys have already essentially answered. I'm so curious to get into your stories. I'm so curious to get into your perspectives on the military and specifically being females, women in the military. Captain Kim, tell us, give us a succinct summary of your upbringing. Front and center. Front and center, Jason. Or is that Ethan? That's Ethan. Ethan, front and center. Did we mention Sergeant Gross? Oh, okay, yeah. Well, they catch out of the bag. They know I'm an NCO, and I have to listen to my superiors here. So you wanted to be an actress when you grew up. Where did that desire come from? I don't know. I was born this way, in the great words of Lady Gaga. We can totally tell. No, I really was. I had this, like, even when I was young, I just wanted to create and produce and develop, and, yeah, and that's followed me all through my life. It's just been this pull inside of me to continue that journey. That's awesome. And you're doing it. You're producing the podcast. Yes. You're administering these retreats with Reveille and Retreat Project. So, you know, you might not have ended up on the big silver screen, but you're doing things that are really important for the community. That's awesome. Ethan, but I did. I did. Oh, my goodness. On the Fear Factor and American Ninja Warrior. Yeah, we want to know about Joe Rogan. We want to know how short Joe Rogan is. I'm going to plead the fifth until he puts us on his podcast. Okay. You were on his show. Now he's going to be on yours. I would think that's got to be a pretty easy bargain. I mean, did you get to, like, talk to him when you were on Fear Factor? Okay. So, Joe, I'm going to tell if he's listening, I do want him to know that the speech we got was, you do not talk to Joe Rogan unless he talks to you. And I was like, my thought at that time was, he does know he's just a reality TV show host, doesn't he? Does he know, like, I'm doing important work, like, in the military? But, anyway, we'll discuss that more when Dakota and I go on his podcast. Right, Dakota? I would love that. That would be fantastic. That's awesome. You guys could show him a thing or two. That's right. I'll never forget those episodes, man. I could never eat a scorpion or whatever you had to do. Oh, my gosh. So, funny enough, we'll get into it just a little bit since we're on the topic already, Kim. You were on Fear Factor with an ex-boyfriend. Is that right? Why in the world? What were you thinking? Well, thank you. They give you a list that you can pick out of. And it just so happened that that weekend all my friends were in a wedding in Boston, and I went to Philly to go audition for Fear Factor. And the next day you had to bring back a partner. And so my best friend was in Boston at the wedding. My sister was getting her doctorate in Colorado. So nobody can do it except the ex-boyfriend. I know. I know. Try going on a plane ride, staying in the same hotel room, being with him for a week. Oh, my gosh. Well, it's good to know you're still on speaking terms, obviously. That's kind of a nice thing. Well, I think saying that we have a chance to win $50,000 is what really brought us together. Yeah. That's pretty motivating. Okay, another thing I wanted to ask about your life, Kim, early on, is you and I have a connection you may not know about. Baseball has affected our lives in some way, but for you it was kind of painful. So tell us about what got you into wanting to be a nurse. Oh, yes, yes. So I went to East Strasburg University. When I went to college, my first degree was I was studying exercise science and athletic training. And I remember we had to go and we had an intern, and we were at this baseball game, and the baseball came right smack, hit the pitcher right in the nose. He went down, and there was just blood everywhere. And at this time, I was not used to that. You know, I was a sorority girl, a cheerleader, and I was like, oh, not expecting that to happen. And I was just like, oh, my gosh, what do we do? I was broke. Why? What is your take with baseball or experience? So St. Louis, you may or may not know, St. Louis is a big historic baseball town, go Cards. Yeah. And I've played throughout my entire life, and I've coached little league teams. I'm just a big fan and proponent of the sport of baseball. Well, so I wanted to bring that up because that leads to you eventually training as a combat medic in the Army. Oh, yeah. So tell us about that experience. Yeah. Well, I saw this was such a catastrophe at the time, right? This guy's laying on the ground. It looks like his nose is just slathered open. And the athletic trainer and the team are just, I mean, they're moving with purpose. But it was really, they were calm. And right away, they're like the communication skills between everyone. And everyone just kind of had their own job. And I wasn't experienced in that realm at the time. And I was like, oh, my gosh, this is really cool. Like, they just all communicated and worked together to get this guy, you know, back together and moved off the field. One, moved off the field so he could get taken care of. But two, so they can bring in the next pitcher and the game can continue. So you saw what sounds like a beautifully orchestrated sequence of events. Yeah. Yes. So what went through your mind? You wanted to be part of something like that. That seems of interest to you. That seems like you could be of service. I did. But at the time, like I said, I was a sorority girl. I was a cheerleader. I was having a lot of fun not studying and doing other things I wasn't supposed to be doing. And so I needed to find something else for myself that was going to give discipline and motivation and direction. And so, like, I come from a long line of military males in my family, my dad and my two grandpas. And I was like, well, I'm going to go into the military because, I mean, those were the things I was searching for. So, yeah, I went into the military. And I was like my other side of the family is medical. So I was like, okay, I'm going to follow in those footsteps. So I went into the medical program and the nursing program. And, yeah, I got to see all that unravel day after day after day. I'm glad you mentioned your father and your two grandfathers. So your father was in the Army. Can you give Jason and I just a quick short synopsis of your dad's time in the Army? Where did he serve? What time period did he serve? So he was in the National Guard. And so he doesn't talk too much about it, neither did my grandpa. So I can't give you too much information because I don't know. My grandpa I know was in the Navy. I know what branches they were in, but I don't know too much about their service. That's okay. It's pretty typical of that era. Of that era, yeah. Jason and I have had multiple experiences, which I'd like to get into this with both of you guys later, you know, being podcast hosts. But we've had multiple experiences where there's a certain line that some veterans are not willing to cross in terms of sharing their experiences. We just recently interviewed a councilwoman from nearby. Her father was a Green Beret, and her father wasn't comfortable sharing his story, so he passed it down to his daughter so that she could kind of recount his experience. With some limited information, yeah. So even still, even telling his daughter, just like you, Kim, he wasn't totally comfortable sharing everything. That's okay. Everyone deals with stress and trauma in different ways, and they don't always want to talk about it in full. Your grandfathers, were they both in the Navy? One was Navy and one was Army. Okay. But back to what you said, Dakota really taught me about that, because I have, like, this curiosity, and I was like, gosh, I really just want to know, because one, like, I want to know, and two, I really do believe that getting it, telling your story and getting that trauma out from inside really does help in the healing process. However, Dakota has really taught me a lesson along the way that people need time, and some people don't want to share that story, and the things that it can bring up, they need to be in the right environment to do that. So thank you, Dakota, for teaching me that. Absolutely amazing. I've learned so much about, you know, different things like that with interviewing the variety of people that we have, some that I know personally, some that I only know through the podcast, but specifically having any type of military sexual trauma, those are really hard to talk about, or if they were in close proximity to a friend or teammate that was killed in front of them or something like that. In fact, Jason's being a little modest, actually. He probably has several individuals that he might feel comfortable enough, if they feel comfortable being on your podcast, some truly fantastic guests prior to when I came on as co-host. So we can talk about the people we recommend later. Okay, thank you. This is a great transition to Captain Dakota. So a few things, Dakota. Whenever I can criticize a former lieutenant general, I want to take the opportunity. Lieutenant General Smith did not ask you about CULP very much, which I was kind of shocked by. I'm fascinated by your experience in ROTC and the CULP, the Cultural Understanding Language Program. So, but that's kind of getting ahead of your story a little bit, because you had already deployed before you were even in ROTC. So you did the delayed entry program in high school, and then soon after you went through basic training, you deployed to Iraq for 10 months. Yes. Talk about getting into and getting your feet wet immediately. Tell us about that experience. Yeah, absolutely. So like you said, I went to basic, and then I went to a six-month AIT, and then I was home for a few months, and then I deployed. And so I was new to the unit. I didn't really know what was going on, just got out of training, and I was very intimidated, very nervous, and not knowing who I was deploying with either. We just had a few months to get ready. And so going to Iraq was very eye-opening, especially I wasn't even 21 yet, and being exposed and seeing how other people lived really made me appreciate my own life, especially when I came back. So, yeah. You trained as a 240 gunner, and that is primarily what you did in convoy operations in Iraq. You were the gunner. Yes. Now my understanding is, and I think it might have been something you got into with Lieutenant General Smith on Army matters, you had one particular experience for you was a really indelible and unforgettable moment. Yeah. If you would. And I know moments like this, we just talked about this. You may not want to get into detail, but Jason and I are ready and willing listeners, and as much as you're willing to share, we want to hear. Yeah, well, thank you. I appreciate that. And I think, like Kim said, talking about it is part of the journey to healing. So it was actually an RPG, or rocket-propelled grenade. Our vehicle was ahead of the vehicle that got hit. But our vehicle didn't have AC, and in Iraq, it should be deadlines, but here we were rolling down the road, really hot, really dry air, and no AC. So two vehicles behind us got hit with an RPG, and the helicopter came to pick them up. We didn't really see them because we had to transition vehicles. That way we had AC. And all I remember is there was blood everywhere because he was also the gunner that got hit. And so there was shrapnel everywhere, blood everywhere, blood all over his headset. And that's all I can really recall from that. And not knowing if he was okay, I think, was the hardest part because he, by the time we got to the vehicle, he was already airlifted out. And you didn't know what the result was until later, much later, I'm guessing. Right, yeah. And then, unfortunately, when we got back stateside, due to PTSD and being given so much medication, he eventually overdosed from the PTSD. That's sad. I'm sorry to hear that. Yeah, we've heard similar stories. In fact, one of our recent interviewees, he was in a convoy that was under fire, and he mentioned that he doesn't recall hardly anything about it because of the, first of all, it was intense. Second of all, he had a job to do. And third of all, he just didn't recall anything. He said he learned more about it from other people than he did from remembering it. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and it's a similar thing. Like, sometimes I didn't really remember what happened. But when you talk about it, those things, those details come up. And then hearing other people talk about it as well. Yeah, yeah. So that was a two-month deployment. I want to make sure I'm saying that correctly. Is that right, Dakota? Yes. At what point in your deployment did that event occur? Oh, I don't remember. Early on? I think it was towards the end of it. Okay, wow. Yeah. Had the deployment been relatively quiet up until that point, or you had had other skirmishes? No. When we deployed, they said that a lot of stuff was quiet and dying down. But from what we saw, that wasn't the truth at all. Like, our base was getting mortared. There was IEDs, improvised explosive devices, RPGs. So, for us, it wasn't dying down. And people weren't hit. Were you there in late 2009? Am I getting my math right? It was 2010-2011. Gotcha, 2010-2011. Now, I'm no historian, but that's soon after at least one of the surges in Iraq, if I remember correctly. Yes. Yeah, yeah. There was never a safe time to be in Iraq. No, not at all. Them trying to tell you that, hey, it's quiet, you'll be fine, is ridiculous. Yeah, and they were saying that stateside, too. And so there's this impression that, you know, what we were doing over there, like, it wasn't dangerous because it was dying down. And a lot of the bases were being closed at that point, but we were still getting hit, and there's still that threat. Let me step back a moment, Dakota. This is another part of your story that really fascinates me, and it kind of tears my heartstrings a little bit. Before you joined, I heard you say at some point that you always felt you wanted to be in the military. You had some sort of calling, you felt. Tell us about where that came from. I always envisioned myself like low-crawling, and, you know, I also really believed in leading the way and being an example for women, because I had a little sister, and I took care of her a lot of the time. And when I first joined, I wanted to fly the unmanned aerial systems, and they told me I couldn't because I was a female. And so I was like, mm-mm. So since then, I've been very intentional with making sure that I'm being a role model for women, and especially for my hometown, because it's a very small town. A lot of people don't usually leave unless you have an opportunity like joining the military. And that's what I really wanted to, was to travel and experience a different life than just living in my small town. It's kind of amazing to me, Jason, and this is for Kath and Kim and Dakota as well. So you're talking about early 2000s. Still today, there are towns, little, small, rural towns across the United States where what Dakota just described is still the case. You're only ticket out, basically. You're only ticket to exploring the world. You're only ticket to getting out of the potentially rut that you're living in is to join the military to serve your nation. You know, Jason has said this many times before. Just because you don't deploy or just because you stay stateside or just because whatever, whatever, anyone who serves still signs a blank check, essentially. Absolutely. And anyone who served active duty, National Guard reserves, it does not matter. At any point in time, your life could be put in peril. So it's just stories like yours, Dakota, really inspire me because you saw an opportunity to make something of yourself. You saw an opportunity to build upon your skills and your desires, and you went out and you grabbed the opportunity and you succeeded. So I really applaud you for doing that, especially in 2008. I mean, Iraq was still raging at that point. You joined. I'm assuming you joined thinking there's a chance I could deploy at some point, and obviously you did. Immediately. Yeah. Immediately. Now, am I getting this right? Did you guys both go to Leonardwood for basic? I did. Sorry, not for basic, for my officer training course. Gotcha. Okay. Yeah, and I went for basic. Gotcha. Okay, you went for basic. The buildings are probably still the same. I still wouldn't know how to get there. It is lost in the woods. It lives up to its name. Dakota, did you go to Relax and Jackson? I did, yeah. Okay, good. Me too. We got that in common. So Kim and I have baseball in common. You and I have Relax and Jackson in common. But you both live in Missouri now. Now, yeah. Yeah. Only because my wife's here. And then, Dakota, you went to, this is one of my favorite names within the military installation, Aberdeen Proving Grounds. What a name. What a name. Nice. That sounds fantastic. I want to go there. Yeah, me too. And behind that, she's heading there again in a few days. Oh, very nice. Okay. And I'm going to be there. I'm going to be there. I'm going to be there. And behind that, she's heading there again in a few days. Oh, very nice. Tell us about this. I am becoming a public affairs officer, and so I'm actually going to Maryland again for a school. That's great. Congratulations. That's really fantastic. Thank you. And I'm glad you mentioned that because I want to make sure our audience understands you didn't stay a gunner, not that there's anything wrong with that. So let's now get into your time at Eastern Oregon University. So you, well, I keep getting ahead of myself. You got back from your deployment, and you began using a coping mechanism that no one here recommends, yourself included. You began drinking as a coping mechanism. Yes. And then, thankfully, you were ripped out of that hole by a friend's father who was an ROTC commander. Is that correct? Yes. Yeah. Tell us about that experience of, you know, I'm just going to speak for myself when I say what I would think is a dark place and then finding someone who cared and helped you out of it. It was very difficult coming back. I felt really alone. And I lived by myself. So I turned to drinking. I was drinking a lot. And when I would go to parties, I'd see my peers. But I would have to end up leaving because there just wasn't that connection with me experiencing what it was like to be in Iraq and see how people lived and then hearing, like, what people would talk about or what they would complain about when I got back. And it was really hard in college, too, because I also lived in a dorm. And for my age, I was way more mature, and I felt like I had experienced more than my peers. And so I couldn't connect to anyone. I think having ROTC really saved my life and gave me a purpose and direction because I was able to relate to the instructors because one of my instructors had actually deployed with me. And then I had my mentor, Lieutenant Colonel McKim. He's the one that really pulled me and encouraged me to join ROTC. It's an awesome thing. I'm happy that that turn of events occurred. I'm just curious, Dakota, how did, you said Lieutenant Colonel McKim? Yeah. How did Lieutenant Colonel McKim notice that you needed help? How did that come up? He always was looking out for me because my home life wasn't exactly the greatest growing up, and I did share with his daughter. And so him and his wife always looked out for me, had me under their wing, and he would make a point to come up and talk to me, especially when he saw me out in the community. And I think when I got back, he noticed what was going on, and with his own experience, he realized what was going on with me and just really encouraged me to join. And I don't have to tell you ladies this because this is a huge part of your podcast and the guests that you speak to, but I'm preaching to the choir here, but for our audience, it takes just as much bravery and courage for someone like Lieutenant Colonel McKim to approach someone like Dakota. It takes just as much bravery and courage to accept that help. Oh, absolutely, yeah. So Jason, I really applaud you. Absolutely. And I'm truly happy that someone noticed that you needed a helping hand in that situation. Just briefly, I want to get into this cultural understanding language program. You got to train with some foreign military members. Yeah. Tell us about that. That was fascinating. Yeah. I had the privilege of going to Guyana, South America, and I was able to train with their cadets. And then we also experienced jungle warfare training, and we did that with the Brazilian Special Forces. So they taught us how to kill animals. They gave us animals, they made us name them, and then they made us kill them to make soup. Wow. Yeah. I would not laugh in that army. Incredible. It was intense. And then they dropped us off in the middle of the jungle by ourselves. We didn't have any food. We were in a group of maybe four, and we had to build our own shelter. There's no way to build a fire out there because everything is just soaking wet. But just that experience was so amazing, just being challenged. And, yeah, I just really loved it, absolutely loved it. Fantastic experience, especially so early on in your officer career. Yeah. So, okay, most of our audience members, I think, kind of understand ROTC. We've had some other guests that did ROTC in college. So your ROTC program, did you do that for all four years at Eastern Oregon or it was a shorter amount of time? I did ROTC, I think I had a four-year scholarship, and I was also still drilling at the time too. Oh, wow. And so you came out commissioned as a first lieutenant. Am I getting that right? Second lieutenant, yeah. Second lieutenant, I always mix those two up. I know, it's really confusing. It's very confusing, I know. It's very confusing. Okay. I don't know. You know, the way I should just remember is PVT-2 is a lower rank than PFC, private first class. But I never think of that in the moment. I always screw it up anyway. Or just call us butter bars. Yeah, there you go. The only reason why I know about it, Ethan, is because my dad did the same thing Dakota did. Oh, okay. That's right, that's right. Just so you both know, Jason is a Gold Star son. His father served and was killed in the Battle of Kofji in the Gulf War in 1991. That's part of the reason why Jason does this. Thank you, Jason. Yeah, thank you. My pleasure. My father has a truly incredible career and service and story as well. And Jason is continuing to live in that legacy. I'm thankful that he's allowed me to leech onto this podcast. Okay. Well, this is great. You guys are, like, fantastic at transitions. Dakota was talking about having to eat animals. Okay, so fear factor, we talked a little bit about that. Joe, give her a call. But let's talk about American Ninja Warrior. And also, am I getting this right? You're kind of a little bit of a daredevil. Do you do things like the Tough Mudder? Do you do things like those marathon races? What kind of things do you do to stay active? Oh, yes, yes, yes. Well, I did before I found out that I had all these herniated discs in my back. But before that, I would do Tough Mudders and Spartan races and the reality shows. And then I was on one of those survival shows. Discovery did a pilot show. And they wanted to do where Survivor meets American Ninja Warrior in the wild. Very cool. So I was able to do that, too, yeah. Where was the setting for that? Dominica. Oh, interesting. Very interesting. Dominica. Did the pilot only go that far, or did it go the whole show? It was just the pilot. It was such a great concept, but the production team just couldn't get it together. There was two different production teams, couldn't get it together. But it would have been a great, great show. It's almost like I haven't seen Alone, but people say it's like Alone with a little bit more activity. Yeah. What's really neat about that is I would do medical missions and then be part of search and rescue teams. So that year, the year after I was on the show, and I made very good friends, because production teams call upon the natives to help us navigate around the land, because they are very aware and know the land better than we do. So I got to meet a lot of the locals, and they were very kind to us, even to the fact that two of them, the one night they saw that I was so cold that they snuck me a log so I can make fire. I know, don't tell anyone. But they were so kind. I could say that now because I'm not under contract anymore. But that next year, Hurricane Maria hit and destroyed Dominica. Oh, wow. And so I got called up by one of the surgeons that I used to work with at Lehigh Valley, and he was like, hey, do you want to be part of our search and rescue team? And I went over there, and I was able to reunite with them again. I mean, it was devastating to go over there, but I was so happy I got to meet and find the three locals and be able to provide for them like they provided for me, which I believe in wholeheartedly. Full circle. Yeah, full circle. Yeah. Well, this is what I want to do, because I want the thrust of our conversation to be about the podcast and what you guys do with Reveille and Retreat. Let me throw a very big unfair question at both of you. So both of you are officers. Well, Kim retired as an officer. Dakota, you're currently serving as an officer. I want you to give me, if you can, a highlight of serving as an officer in our United States Army, whether it was Reserves or National Guard, and I want you to give us a low point. If you can, because I want the theme of this conversation to be the struggles and difficulties of being a woman in the military. Give the highlight in low light from the perspective of a female leader. I can go first. Or do you want to go first? You can go first. I think a highlight so far in my officer career has been able to lead soldiers as a company commander. I've had two company commands so far, and I'll probably take my third in January. And I think being able to have access to soldiers and get to know them, get to know their families, be genuinely interested in their lives and giving them resources that can potentially help them in their life, I think that's been the most rewarding so far. I think the hardest is being told no, because when I first came in, I was told no because I'm a female. I actually went on my second deployment to UAE, or United Arab Emirates, and I was slotted as essentially someone that is the link between our armed forces and the Emiratis. And I was told no because I was a female. And so they put me in another position as the mayor of the camp, which is pretty cool. But I think being told no is really hard and just so frustrating. And I understand it's a cultural thing as well, which I respect that, but it's still really hard to hear that. Especially when it's not based off merit. Yeah. When they're telling you it's because you are a woman. Yeah. I can't imagine how offensive that must sound to your ears. Well, just thank you. Yeah. It's heartbreaking. You said you understood the culture. How did you resolve that within yourself, wanting that opportunity and also having to struggle or wrestle with the outcome? It was really hard. It took a while to process it, and I was still able to interact with them, just in a different capacity. And I really took on my role as the mayor of the camp and just tried to do my best in that position. But I'm still very upset about it. But it's definitely a good opportunity. Yeah. Well, you made something of it. But I hope as we move forward in the military that women here let's know. Let's know. Because we're just as qualified to do certain jobs. Amen. Just like they're counted. Absolutely. Captain Kim, if you could, I don't know how you're going to top that, but, I mean, good luck. I'm just kidding. If you would, Kim. We are not in competition. That's the thing. Right, Dakota? We all have our own stories and journeys, and we learn from one another. Absolutely. If you would, Kim, give us your highlight as a female commander and maybe something that was a struggle or a hardship. So I'm going to start with a hardship just because it will lead into one of the strengths I've seen as a leader. But one of the hardships was just like Dakota was being told no or because I was a female being demeaned because I was a female. Like when I was performing at such a high level, one of the top athletes in the military, and, you know, like the male counterparts couldn't imagine. They were like, there is no way a female is doing that. And then just being ridiculed for it. So when you're under that scrutiny day after day after day, even though you know you can perform and you know like you can aspire to something more than that, it's really hard mentally to stay in a good space and overcome that instead of shrinking down to fit in and to stop all that ridicule. And so I believe when I became an officer, because I was enlisted first, when I became an officer, I really got the chance to nurture those females. So when I was instructing, like doing flight nurse instructing, or I was going around to the different bases to teach them physical fitness and nutrition, I really would take the women, not that I didn't focus on the males as well, but I really would take the women and try and uplift them and empower them and put them in roles where I knew they could do it. I knew they were just as smart and capable. So those were some of the really rewarding times when I was able to uplift those females and really support them. Yeah. And they're probably just as grateful for the opportunity. Thank you so much, Kim. You reminded me, I wanted to make sure to mention this. Both of you, I forgot about this, both of you started as enlisted soldiers and commissioned. Yes. So Dakota, you commissioned through ROTC specifically. Kim, what was your journey? Was it the same or was it different? No, I was in the Army Reserve at the time as an E-5. I finished my primary leadership development course, and actually I wanted to stay an enlisted soldier. And somebody, and I'm not 100% sure yet, I think it was Rollins who submitted my packet, because the next thing you knew I was getting commissioned as an officer. It really was a surprise to me because I wanted to stay over on the enlisted side. I loved the hands-on, but now I'm grateful for it because I got to see both sides of it, and I really got to develop my skills as well in a different way than being an enlisted soldier. This is amazing to me. Dakota had Lieutenant General McKim, a father of a friend, someone who was just in her sphere, knew about her, encouraged her to do ROTC. And Kim had a commander in her sphere, in her sphere of influence, who saw something in her without even asking her for application. I love that because it shows just how fortunate you can be with the people around you, and it shows you how many opportunities and how many great things can happen if you're open to it. And I'm sure Lieutenant Colonel McKim saw that Dakota had what she needed in her to be successful, and I'm positive that Kim's commander saw that she's got what it takes. It would have been nice if you'd asked, but it's whatever. I don't think they ask in the military. You're just volunteered, voluntold. Voluntold, oh, yeah, that's a term I remember. But it's interesting, I didn't remember that until now. I didn't remember that somebody submitted, yeah. That's so funny. Yeah, it's interesting how it starts unfolding. Here's one last question before we get into Dog Tag Diaries and Reveille and Retreat Projects, because I think, Kim, you kind of touched on this subject, so I wanted to make sure we talked about it plainly. As officers, as female officers, did either of you feel that you had to, as Kim kind of already said she did in some way, did you feel you had to augment your personality or augment your characteristics in order to fill a certain societal role as female leaders in the Army? For me, I did, yeah, absolutely. The more I would shine, I felt like the more obstacles I would have to face. So for me, it was easier to take it down a level. Lay low. And not shine as much. That way I can maybe creep my way through it. Wow. I'm sorry that happened to you. Well, we're shining like a diamond now. I am shining like a diamond now, yeah. Dakota and I can do whatever we want with our nonprofit. That's right. What a loss for her fellow troops. What a loss for the unit. I mean, why hold somebody back? It doesn't make any sense to me. So I'm sorry to hear that you had to experience that. We're a strong proponent of females and women. I've got three at my house, and I want them to all be successful like you guys. Thank you. And I think it's a proponent of the culture, too, like Dakota was talking about, like the culture being overseas and UAE and the culture of our military. But I think the more we educate people about it, the better chance we have of change. Absolutely, 100%. Dakota, I want to give the opportunity if you'd like to address that specifically. I feel like because of my journey, the more I, like, tried or the more effort I put in, the more opportunity I had. And I think because of, like, Lieutenant Colonel McKim, I was able to go to air assault training. Like, I really had the opportunity to shine in ROTC, and then just really trying really hard. Like, I feel like I had to put in extra effort to make sure that I shined above my peers in order to have these opportunities. So for you, conversely, this is interesting to me, for you, the more effort you put in, it seemed to be the more you were rewarded by leadership. Yes. Okay, interesting. I think it's because of the leadership I had and the people by my corner. Yeah. Because they wanted me to have these opportunities. It makes a huge difference, the people you're around. Yeah, leadership is very important. Yeah, and it's kind of crazy that it's that way, and you guys know this as veterans, and Dakota, you're still in, and I've seen this. There seems to be cultures around different units. There seem to be different cultures around different Army posts. It doesn't make a lot of sense because we're all one Army, but there are different cultures surrounding, especially when you talk about different units. You know, Dakota, you just mentioned Air Assault. I mean, talk about a different culture. Air Assault units, like the 101st Airborne units. I was at Fort Bragg for three years. That's a very different culture from regular Army, normal Army. You know, in some ways, there's that esprit de corps, and it's an okay thing. I think it kind of adds to the positivity of the camaraderie. But in other ways, it's an extremely negative concept. Well, let's do this because, as I mentioned earlier, it's no secret. I love that we're getting to two podcast hosts. We're talking to two podcast hosts. This is fantastic. So tell us about the origin of the Dog Tag Diaries. Tell us about how it started and where you guys are at now and what you're enjoying about it. Well, Dakota, can I start by telling the origin, and then you can talk about where we are now? Yeah, because we just had an amazing accomplishment. Okay, let me start at the beginning. So what actually inspired us was the retreat that we were doing, and these military women were sitting around telling their stories. And this was the first time that I've ever heard military women talk so vulnerably about their military careers and what happened to them because usually we're in co-ed settings. There's a lot of co-ed retreats. And military women were not telling their stories in co-ed retreats like we were hearing them when it was just all women. And so we were like, oh, my gosh, we need to get this out into the world. Like, these women deserve to have their stories told. So what do we do? We created Dog Tag Diaries. It's a platform where military women can speak their truth and tell their stories. And so now Dakota and I decided, and I don't know, I mean, it sounded good at the moment, but then when we actually had to do it, it was kind of scary for both of us. And I said, if we are going to ask these women to tell their stories, then we need to set the example and tell our own stories. And then I was like, wait, what did I just say? And Dakota's like, what did I agree to? Do you remember that? That was scary. Yeah. I remember looking for ways to be and, like, yeah, crying. That's so interesting that you say that, Kim. You know, this probably just shows my own ignorance. But in my mind, I would think, okay, you know, you guys are just sharing your stories to each other. But in reality, you guys had kind of only just met pretty recently when you did that first retreat. In fact, you didn't even physically meet before the retreat. Am I getting that right? Like, oh, my goodness. You guys had a few weeks to set that first retreat up to make it a success. And then soon after that, you decided, you know what, let's make something more of this. Let's do the podcast. That's right. That's amazing. You guys work with such speed. Oh, my gosh. Nice to meet you. Absolutely. And so you guys put out podcasts on a weekly basis, which, I mean, kudos to you guys. Oh, my gosh. We do every other week, which I like. I won't say I want to do weekly or anything. I like our pace. It is a lot. It is a lot. A lot goes into it. Yes. And energy and taking on that energy and then what's the word I'm looking for? Afterwards. Processing. Processing it. Yes. So taking on that energy and then processing it afterwards. That's a really good point. That's a really good point. I've told Ethan many times while we have guests here, let me digest this. That was pretty heavy. I have no other words to say because that was intense. We've had many different types of reactions from our guests, but my favorite reaction is that that felt so good to share that. That helped me process that. Yes. In fact, we had one female veteran who is a Coastie. Her story just really rocked me in a personal way. I had no words. Anyway. Actually, that's an individual we'll talk about later, Kim and Dakota. I'd love for you guys to be able to interview her. Yes. Not only did she say that it felt so good to kind of express all those emotions and get all that stuff out there, but she also said it was the first time she had told that whole story. The trust that she put into us with that story, that's a lot of motivation. It was an incredible honor for both Jason and I when she said that she could be that vulnerable with us. I mean, I don't feel worthy of that, but it was a really incredible moment. That's amazing. It was really cool. Another thing, Jason's not going to give himself enough credit. Another thing that Jason says, almost every podcast he'll say this, I learned a lot today. I learned a lot from our conversation. I think you guys would agree. Even if you just take one thing away as a listener, as long as you've learned one thing, that interview is worth it. Whether it's 25 minutes or three hours long, getting into Joe Rogan's realm here, whether it was three hours long, even if you just take one thing away, it was worth it. Now, Dakota, Captain Kim has given you the task of telling us where you're at now in terms of the podcast and your achievements. You have the floor. First, I want to acknowledge Kim because the podcast had become too much for me, and so I had to take a step back. Kim is just an amazing host. She makes everyone feel so comfortable, and just her genuine interest in every woman's story is amazing. I really give her props for taking that on. Thank you. Putting her whole heart into it. With that, Kim is ranked top 10% globally. Amazing. Yay. Very nice. Yay. That's awesome. How cool is that? That's fantastic. Congratulations, Kim. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. This is a question, and I'm going to try to frame it as best I can without sounding as dumb because I like to think that I know the answer, but I probably really don't. I'm going to say for our listening audience's education, tell us why, and this is going to be a broad question. I'm sorry I do this a lot. Jason knows. Tell us why it is so important that female veterans' stories are heard. Yes. Go ahead. You go first. Go ahead. I think from being a counselor and talking to veterans, I see that a lot of people think that they're alone, and I think that the podcast normalizes what women are going through and the thoughts they're having and the journeys they've been on. While each journey is unique, there are commonalities, and it's really nice that women don't feel alone after they've heard a story that they can resonate. I think that's why it's really important. I love that. That's so true. Being women in the military, we're such a small percentage, and so I feel like a lot of us feel like we're not seen, we're not heard, our accomplishments are overlooked, and so being able to have the platform, even though it's really nerve-wracking in the beginning of the podcast, once these women start to realize they have this platform and freedom and they are being heard and listened to and somebody is really curious about who they are and what they accomplished and all the trials and tribulations they had to go through, I feel like it's really freeing for them. What do you get out of it, Kim, specifically, from those interviews? Oh, my gosh. Pure satisfaction. It is so beautiful to watch, like I said, from when they start the podcast till the end and just listen to them transform and build that confidence and feel empowered and know that they are making a difference for someone else, and also, Jason, just like you said, the common theme they say afterwards is, oh, my gosh, I feel so much lighter or I can breathe again. With that, it's just this healing feeling for me as well, and proud. I'm so proud of them. Phenomenal. I think I can echo Kim's response in that. Yeah. You had me thinking, Kim, as you were talking. Storytelling is one of the oldest art forms in human history. My favorite art form. My favorite art form as well. You also touched upon this, Kim. Everybody has a story. Our motto here at the museum is every veteran has a story, and part of what Jason and I are trying to do, part of our mission with Operation Insight is to capture and preserve as many veteran stories as we can. We are doing the best we can with that. We work diligently to try to get every story that we can. Whoever is willing, we want to hear their story. I just want to say, I want to echo what both Kim and Dakota have said. It is such an honor when someone can show vulnerability. My favorite interviews are the ones where you kind of forget you're recording. Yeah. Very true. It just feels like you're having a moment with somebody, sharing a human experience. Those are phenomenal, phenomenal moments. One of my favorite things to feed off of that, Ethan, is one of my favorite memories of this podcast is from this season. It's almost like you're invited into that soldier or that veteran's living room from the time that their recruiter came to talk to their parents or the time that somebody that was important delivering a message that was not something they wanted to hear but were brought into their presence from that time period or that event. It just takes you right back or you feel part of the story yourself. That's one of the things that I love the most. In fact, I think a corner is turned in my mind and I think in the veteran's mind when they get to live, so to speak, live that out again and relive that memory that they've tucked away for so long. They either get that release or they get that feeling, that good feeling that they had that a parent might not be able to have anymore or a spouse or a child. It's just really important for me and awe-inspiring to be part of their story. It's an incredible honor. Funny enough, we had one of those moments just today with Kim. We're calling back to, oh, that's right. That's how I got to be involved. Absolutely. That was a cool moment. I love moments like that. I live for moments like that. Now let's get into something that you already mentioned that led to the Dog Tag Diaries podcast. It was the impetus for the podcast, the Reveille and Retreat Project. You guys just recently had a conference and you had a retreat. Tell us about the Reveille and Retreat Project. Tell us why it's important to you and tell us why it matters. Dakota and I had a common friend, which we now call Founding Father Dan, because he's the one that brought Dakota and I together. He knew us separately and knew our strengths and just thought he was like, you two are going to be a power team. That's how we got linked together. That's how we started our first retreat. I'll tell you what. Founding Father Dan was correct because Dakota has just been such a light in my life. Starting these retreats was not easy. We were nervous because us ourselves, we had trauma that we haven't unveiled yet. We were like, oh my goodness, how are we going to do all this? That comes with anything new. How are we going to do this? Dakota and I, two capable, intelligent women, and we made it happen. Then we saw the results of the first retreat and we just knew. We just knew. We didn't know how we were going to find the money. We didn't know how we were going to make it work with our schedules, but we were like, we saw what happened with us and these women. We need to continue this project. That was back in 2022. Now we're in 2025 and it's becoming bigger than ever. It's been an amazing journey. Amazing. I think what's unique about us is that we also have a program after the retreat where these women stay connected, which is the most important part is, I think, community where they feel supported. Each woman will have a week where they take over and share their journey, share resources, or just talk about what's going on in their life. We continue that until we get through all the ladies. Then what's amazing is they keep it going even after. They're meeting up for coffee. They're planning trips together. They're planning reunions. The most important part is that community and that connection. The follow-up, like you said, I'm really happy you mentioned that. Without follow-up, you might have built some skills and you might have built some connections. A foundation may have been laid, but you need to keep building on that foundation for real change to occur. I'm so happy that you guys recognize that fact. What a beautiful testament to you guys understanding your role and your duty as the host and founders of these retreats. If you would, tell us what happens at these retreats. We really honor these women even taking the step to come to the retreats because we know that it's a huge step, just getting there. We always start with an invitational ceremony or a grounding ceremony. We give that first day. It's very light. We let the women observe the land, go out and explore, find where they feel safe, meet up just organically with the other women, and then we'll have an invitational ceremony. That varies on what's, again, beautiful is that whoever attends our retreat, we love to bring them back to facilitate another retreat to empower them. Depending on what they bring to it, and we allow these women to bring their unique gifts to that retreat. The invitational ceremony really just varies. Then we'll have a nice healthy dinner, and then that next morning we start with movement, yoga, grounding techniques, and depending what that retreat's about, like our last one was firearm safety and self-defense because there's an increase in military women taking their lives by firearms. So it was really important for us to do a retreat around that. So we had an educational piece on the firearms, and then we went to the range, and we actually got to get familiar with our weapons again and teach safety and teach shooting and just how to be comfortable around firearms again and then how to keep them safe and locked up. If they do ever feel the need, where they're in that dark place, to the techniques to use before they reach for their weapons. Then because those days are so heavy, we always have a ceremony in the evening, whether it's dancing or whether it's a unique ceremony that another woman brings to it. Then at the end we have a closing ceremony. This is so cool, Kim and Dakota. So you guys will have specific themes for your retreats. We've done bungee jumping. We've incorporated horses, mountain biking, fly fishing. So we really try to do different things to reach different women because every woman has a different interest, and so we want all women to feel like they're welcome. That's incredible. That's amazing. I want our listening audience to understand, when you hear retreat, do not think, oh, kumbaya around the fire. That's not what's happening here. Kim and Dakota are specifically addressing the needs of their community, and they're doing it in an amazing way. I want to make sure our audience understands how they can get involved, and my first question is if they can get involved. Are you geographically specific? So we are just out of Oregon right now. Is anyone welcome? Yes. Okay, good. Sorry, I don't want me to interrupt you. Tell us all about how someone can get involved and go to your retreat. So we have a website. It's called drivewayandretreatproject.org, and we will post our events on there and the dates because we know that planning is really important due to families, jobs, et cetera, financial. And then we will send out an event right using our social media. So we are on Facebook, and we're also on Instagram. And then we also have a newsletter that they can subscribe to on our website to get more information when our retreat is posted. I want to tell you it's a beautiful website because I've been to it. And I'm a manager of employees in my day job, and one of my star employees is a soldier who got out of the military about two years ago, and she's a co-chair in one of our employee resource groups for military veterans. And so she was really, really impressed, and she's listening to your podcast. She loves you guys. And we have already put you guys out there in our own sphere of influence. Oh, my gosh. Thank you. What you guys do is important. Jason and I are huge proponents of people like yourselves who recognize there's an issue that needs to be addressed. And instead of looking to someone else to do it, you guys took on that responsibility. So we applaud you. What you're doing is incredible. We're here to support you in every way we can. I was mentioning to Jason earlier not to put you on the spot, but I'm kind of hoping we can kind of be brother-sister podcasts in some way. We exchanged tasks here and there. You know, think it over, but I'd love for that to be the case. But it's such an honor for Jason and I to be able to get to know you guys and get to understand what's important to you. You'll both understand this as retreat administrators, as podcast hosts. I think when it comes down to it, to get kind of metaphysical here and philosophical, when it comes down to it, you know, our world is going through so many stresses and strains right now, and there's a lot of really sad and horrific things happening all around us. At the end of the day, all it takes, the seed that will heal our world, is an ounce of understanding. Just an ounce of understanding. Take a moment, take a millisecond to try to understand somebody. That's where it starts. And you guys do that with Dog Tag Diaries. You guys are obviously doing it with the Reveling Retreat Project. It's an incredible honor for us to be able to try to promote as best as we can. We're still kind of a small podcast. We're trying to get there as much as we can. Thank you, and we'll help promote you as well. That would be fantastic. Yeah. We'll take the help. It's a passion project for us. If I can say something else, we are no-cost retreats for these military women. So if there's anyone out there who's interested in sponsoring a military woman to come to one of our retreats, we do have a donation page on our website. Very nice. They have thought of everything. Yeah. That's incredible. I love that it's cost-effective for the veterans. Yeah, truly amazing. Well, something Jason and I always do is we want to give a platform for our guests. Since you were so kind giving your time, giving your resources, we want to give you the platform to say whatever you would like to say before we close today. I would just like to say that you're not alone, and sharing your story is so powerful. And even if you don't think it's worth telling, it is, because there's another woman out there that is also going through the same thing you are. And so sharing that is empowering. And I want to echo Dakota on the you are not alone. It may feel like it at times, but there are resources and other women out there that will help you get through those dark moments. Take a chance. Come to one of our retreats. Build that community and see that you matter, your story matters, and you are capable of doing whatever you dream of in this world. Outstanding. Captains Kim and Dakota, a true pleasure, a true honor to speak to you both. Thank you so much. And with that, we're going to go ahead and sign off of the Operation Inside podcast from the Mid-America Veterans Museum. Thank you. ♪♪♪ Operation Insight is brought to you by the Mid-America Veterans Museum, where we believe every veteran has a story. If you agree and you enjoy today's podcast, please take a moment to like, subscribe, and leave a review on whichever platform you listen. Don't forget, sharing this episode with friends and family is a great way to support the museum and our mission of sharing veterans' stories. Thank you for listening.